Messages are welcome on any subject relating to Troopers Hill Local Nature Reserve; the surrounding area of St George and Crews Hole or any of Bristol's Parks and Green Spaces.
Friends of Troopers Hill Forum - www.friends-forum.org.uk
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| Viewing Page 1 of 1 (Total Posts: 27) |
| Author | Comment |
Kite
 Aug 2, 07 - 5:39 PM |
Where to put it.
Now we actually have the Green Flag, the question arises where to put it? My personal preference - which I realise will not be popular with most people - is on top of the chimney. That's mainly 'cos I have an ulterior motive as I want to try and put a webcam looking out over the city up there at the same time. Other than that, it will have to be a flagpole, but where? 
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Roger
Aug 2nd, 2007 - 5:45 PM |
Re: Where to put it.
I'll second the chimney. |
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Rob
Aug 2nd, 2007 - 9:17 PM |
Re: Where to put it.
Well the chimney is the obvious place to make sure it is visible from the largest possible area. It would mean fixing a small flagpole to the top. Even if we could get permission to do this to a Grade 2 listed structure would we really want to? The chimney is the hill's best known feature - do we really want to change its appearance? |
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Ian
Aug 3rd, 2007 - 7:35 AM |
Re: Where to put it.
I would not want a flag on the chimney. As you say it is a grade 2 listed building and nothing should be added or taken away from the structure. To do so would need listed building consent and planning permission. Therefore It is an offence to demolish, alter or extend a listed building without listed building consent and the penalty can be a fine of unlimited amount or up to twelve months' imprisonment, or both. As much as it is an acheivement does a flag need to be flown? If it does I suggest at the outer edge somewhere and near where it can be "watched" else it will become a target. |
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Jules
Aug 3rd, 2007 - 1:28 PM |
Re: Where to put it.
Perhaps a (self-adhesive) logo, like the one at the top of this page, on the signs at the entrances and maybe the 'furniture/bins'. The Actual Flag would then be free for use as a backdrop at events both on the hill and at other venues. On another note, I hope it wasn't Susan's sheets of cardboard that I removed from the slope above greendown this morning. I felt like the 'miserable-old-g*t-of-a-'parkie' that I used to complain about when I was a lad as I dragged them off the site! |
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Rob
Aug 3rd, 2007 - 1:34 PM |
Re: Where to put it.
I agree with Ian that if the flag is not to be flown from the chimney (and I would prefer that it wasn't) then it needs to be somewhere where it is overlooked. We need to display the flag on the site somewhere -unless we have a good reason not to and I for one would be very disappointed if we didn't fly it. It can't be at the end of Malvern Road because Troopers Hill Field is not part of the Green Flag site. That really means that it needs to go somewhere along Troopers Hill Road. My preference would be for it to go at the second entrance up the road, where the braken grows. That should give people the opportunity to photograph the flag with the heather or broom in the background. |
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Jules
Aug 3rd, 2007 - 3:14 PM |
Re: Where to put it.
A fairly high and substantial, fire-proof, climb-proof flag pole would be needed which means a hefty lump of concrete to prevent it being pulled/blown over. Would this affect the acid geology? Also how would it be attached? If 'Friends' can raise and lower it so, possibly, can others. The 'clacking' of ropes/wires against the post can be quite noisy on windy days so it may need to be sited away from nearby houses. 
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Roger
Aug 3rd, 2007 - 3:57 PM |
Re: Where to put it.
what size is the flag, presumably it's not that huge thing the dude with the chain is holding? |
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Jules
Aug 3rd, 2007 - 4:22 PM |
Re: Where to put it.
Yes, hence 'substantial pole'.
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Roger
Aug 3rd, 2007 - 5:10 PM |
Re: Where to put it.
Chelmsford have a sturdy flagpole for theirs, thats not going to be cheap. Funny, I had allways imagined it to be a small triangular pennant style of flag, the reality is somewhat different 
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Kite
Aug 3rd, 2007 - 6:02 PM |
Re: Where to put it.
Well, if you've got it....you want to SHOUT about it after all. 
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Susan
Aug 4th, 2007 - 3:40 PM |
Re: Where to put it.
Rob said "We need to display the flag on the site somewhere -unless we have a good reason not to and I for one would be very disappointed if we didn't fly it." It's actually part of the terms of going in for a Green Flag award - you have to display unless you have a really good reason not to. As Kit says, as the Hill has won it let's blow the Hill's trumpet. Jules has made some good points about what is needed to install a flag pole so we need to consider that in the positioning and whether there are other solutions to the great lump of concrete or if that has to be the case then somewhere appropriate ecology-wise. A lot of people on the work party this morning said it would be good to see the flag when standing on top of the Hill. In answer to Jules about the cardboard - no, 'tisn't mine. Have had a bad back for nearly two weeks (well on the mend) so haven't risked it but I would always bring my cardboard home if I did). Have a good weekend everyone, enjoy the Hill. Cheers, Susan |
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Rob
Aug 4th, 2007 - 6:33 PM |
Re: Where to put it.
Since the flag would be flying all the time there would be no need to have ropes to raise or lower it. The flag pole would have the flag permanently attached at the top and would probably be of the type that could be folded flat when the flag needs changing. Once upright a bolt is used to hold it in position and that could be welded to prevent it being easily removed. Although I can understand people wanting it to be visible at the top of the hill I still think I would prefer it nearer the road so that it doesn't impact on the sky line. The award is only for one year but the aim is win it again next year and the year after... So we shouldn't be thinking of this as a temporary arrangement. What about on the lower hump at the top of the steps leading from bottom chimney.
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Kite
Aug 4th, 2007 - 7:49 PM |
Re: Where to put it.
Not "at" the top of the Hill, but "from" the top of the Hill. Having been at this morning's work party, that is what I meant when I floated the idea. For my money, it can be near one of the Troopers Hill Road entrances as long as it can be seen "from" the top of the Hill. It is a large flag and meant to be flown with pride. If we don't want it on the chimney - and I understand the objections to that - then let's at least put it somewhere it can be seen from the chimney. 
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Susan
Aug 4th, 2007 - 7:52 PM |
Re: Where to put it.
I know people will think we don't talk to each other but I think that is a good idea provided it can be "planted" - there's a lot of rock up in that area. It will certain be visible from the top of the hill, which is what people wanted when discussing it at the work party this morning and it would also be visible from Troopers Hill Rd. See you at dinner ;-) Susan P.S. Anybody want an old suitcase - the one that is usually decently concealed on the hill now emerged and is sitting on the grassy area near entrance number 2 as you go up Troopers Hill Rd. If it is still there tomorrow I will take the car up, pick it up and drop it off at the dump. |
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Jules
Aug 4th, 2007 - 8:49 PM |
Re: Where to put it.
Would it be possible to wrap it around the chimney? That way it would be visible (particularly if it 'faced' the information board) to visitors, but wouldn't impact on the hill's silhouette. High, but not too high, and could be adjusted when the web-cam is periodically inspected. Also no noisy flapping to upset the natives of all types, human, avian, mammilian. This may be 'permissible' under the listing-buildings thing as it could be classed as temporary. If it's left flapping in the breeze as a permanemt fixture on a pole it may end up looking like a pirate's trouser-bottom after the winter. 
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Jules
Aug 4th, 2007 - 10:16 PM |
Re: Where to put it.
The delay between these postings is due to my wanting to check something with a colleague. Many moons ago when we installed the new steps around the site, one of the conditions was that minimum impact of paths and steps was required. All materials brought in via Malvern Road and tracked dumpers used on pre-designated lines to avoid, where possible, disturbance of the 'solitary mining bees'. Wheelbarrows to be used in preference. It thus took ages to do. One of the most sensitive areas was above the area between the lower stack; entrance 'E'; the Nursery; and then up towards the chimney: the mostly bare areas. That's why the steps don't always follow the ROWs, and skirt around the sensitive areas. None straight up from the E gate, the logical route, but curving round. At the time this was the primary concern of the conservation unit, almost more important than not disturbing the grass areas. Perhaps a good site for a pole would be the area to the right of the entrance from THF, easy access for installation materials, thus possibly cheaper, high but not intrusive visibility, close to the most probable "non-locals" entry and the ground was previously scrub/woodland, and is due for further clearance, so lesser environmental impact than other parts of the site.
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Susan
Aug 5th, 2007 - 12:25 PM |
Re: Where to put it.
Hi, Jules, Is "right of the entrance from Troopers Hill Field" east? i.e. on the right when you are standing on Troopers Hill looking out through the entrance, to Troopers Hill Field. Some of us had talked about putting the flag in this area and the issue raised about it was all the vandalism that occurred to the play equipment close to that point in Troopers Hill Field. It is out of sight and not overlooked. Definitely described by John, the Play Officer, as completely the wrong location for play equipment. Maybe flag poles as well? That's my two pen'orth. Cheers, Susan |
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Jules
Aug 5th, 2007 - 2:53 PM |
Re: Where to put it.
No, the location I was thinking of was: As you come in from THF there's the dog-bin on the right and the bench beyond on the path that leads down to the steps. Off to the right of this is an area of grass ( a lady with two dogs often sits here) that leads down to a desire-line through the trees that connects with the path that passes Sally's grove(?) and the steps/path to Lamb Hill. (I felled several nice Silver Birches here.) The area of scrub/woodland bordering the Hill and Crew's Hole Woodland is due to be 'pushed back'. The Cornus immediately inside the gate already has been. I was thinking of somewhere in this area of cleared scrub. maybe a triangulation of bin/bench/pole. It's a pity it's not a formal park, as envisioned by those who decree that the flag "must be displayed" prominently, when they came up with this rule. Then no problem: stick it with pride slap in the middle! Troopers already has an icon of 'special-ness' to distinguish it from lesser parks. Where/how do other LNRs display theirs without detracting from their wildness?
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Rob
Aug 6th, 2007 - 8:40 AM |
Re: Where to put it.
I had a thought about this driving in to work this morning - should we put it on the verge alongside Crews Hole Road near the corner of Troopers Hill Road? We could also put a sign there saying Troopers Hill LNR - we know that there are a lot of people who drive down Crews Hole Road everyday but don't know that the site is there. |
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Roger
Aug 6th, 2007 - 5:53 PM |
Re: Where to put it.
How long will it take us/the council to get planning permission? Is it a more long-winded process if it's going to be a near a road or listed building? |
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Rob
Aug 6th, 2007 - 8:13 PM |
Re: Where to put it.
I'll ask Bristol Parks about planning permission, but from a quick search via Google: "Under the Town and Country Planning Act 1990, flags come within the definition of "advertisement". Their display is controlled by the Town and Country Planning (Control of Advertisements) Regulations 1992". The "Town and Country Planning (Control of Advertisements) Regulations 1992" lists "CLASSES OF ADVERTISEMENTS WHICH MAY BE DISPLAYED WITH DEEMED CONSENT" These include: "An advertisement displayed by a local planning authority on land in their area" So I think that means that since Bristol City Council will be flying the flag on land owned by Bristol City Council then they don't need planning permission.
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Roger
Aug 6th, 2007 - 8:25 PM |
Re: Where to put it.
I was reading frome this government site about flag flying, the quote was: "Q. Do I need planning permission? A. Under Schedule 1 Class H of the Town and Country Planning (Control of Advertisements) (England) Regulations 2007, national flags, the flags of the Commonwealth, European Union, the United Nations, English counties and certain saints can be flown without the express consent of local authorities as long as they satisfy the standard conditions for the display of advertisements generally and the conditions and limitations set out within Class H itself. For saints' flags, the conditions are that they can only be flown in the county with which the saint is associated. This means that the St.Piran's flag may be flown freely in Cornwall, but express consent would be required for it to be flown elsewhere in England. If any of these flags are to be flown no further planning permission is needed for the flagpole, however it may be required if other flags are to be flown." Hence it would require planning permission to fly the flag which we are referring to, but not actually for the flagpole strange these laws eh? |
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Rob
Aug 6th, 2007 - 9:49 PM |
Re: Where to put it.
The site that Roger refers to also shows which way up the Union Flag should be flown - information that needs to be passed to the landlord of the Lord Raglan! 
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Roger
Aug 6th, 2007 - 10:19 PM |
Re: Where to put it.
I just went and had a look, how rude! Some person has attached an "st. georges flag" and a new one at that - whilst the landlord has been on holiday for several weeks to a municipal lampost outside the public house. Darn them, and they did not clear the blocked council storm drains outside that cause the pub to flood from time to time while they were at it, careless I call it :@) |
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Ian
Aug 7th, 2007 - 1:30 PM |
Re: Where to put it.
I think if you wish to display it prominently then the corner of Troopers Hill Road and Crewes Hole Road is the best place but not on the remains of existing mine works building. It could be set back from that remains and therefore be visible from the top of the hill and from across the valley. |
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jules
Aug 7th, 2007 - 4:44 PM |
Re: Where to put it.
Alternative: Somewhere around the Troopers/Greendown corner. I'd never see it at the bottom... road junction/traffic speed too dodgy to look 'up and away' whichever direction I'm travelling in. I suppose it depends if your trying to attract passing walkers or drivers.How would access be gained to dig, possibly large, hole for post if near stack? |
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